In memoriam: A tribute to Bruce Clay

Jul 01, 2026 10:00 PM - 1 week ago 14786

My bosom sank erstwhile I learned that Bruce Clay had passed away. I’d heard he was successful the hospital, but each I could deliberation astir was the 2 agelong conversations we had past autumn — 1 to drawback up, the different for a podcast interview.

I first contacted Bruce almost 25 years ago, erstwhile I emailed him acold to inquire whether I could republish immoderate of his manufacture writings connected ethics. He said yes. My cited article unintentionally classed #2 connected Google for “Bruce Clay” for years. I’d often joke astir that pinch him later, and he seemed some amused and annoyed—presumably because I’d done it pinch his ain contented and blessing.

A fewer years later, I worked pinch Bruce and galore different hunt manufacture pros connected the committee of the Search Engine Marketing Professionals Organization (SEMPO), a business nonprofit focused connected promoting the then-new hunt industry. Beyond promoting champion practices and the morganatic business lawsuit for search, we later worked connected U.S. Internet argumentation successful the early 2010s.

SEMPO had committee members from astir the globe, and it virtually took immoderate of america astir the world. I sewage to cognize Bruce done that work, and we’d later tally into each different while speaking astatine conferences, sometimes moreover landing connected the aforesaid panels. We had a awesome clip doing awesome work. The statement lasted astir 15 years, and if I retrieve correctly, Bruce was a founding personnel astir 2000 aliases 2001.

I person a circumstantial representation of Bruce from erstwhile SEMPO committee members were heading backmost to our edifice connected the eastbound broadside of Midtown Manhattan aft dinner. A snowstorm had conscionable begun and would time off respective feet by the adjacent day. The accustomed large postulation sound was dampened by the upwind and the absence of astir vehicles. It was eerie, but almost joyously quiet. The metropolis that ne'er sleeps was efficaciously taking a nap nether a broad of snow.

Then thing happened that I’d ne'er seen earlier aliases since.

As snowfall silently dumped into the streets, a monolithic lightning onslaught deed conscionable a fewer blocks away, complete Bruce’s shoulder. I’m not judge he moreover saw it directly. It felt for illustration an explosion, and we stood location for a fewer minutes trying to process the contrast: a shattering bolt hitting the thoroughfare betwixt monolithic skyscrapers amid a torrent of snowflakes. But not a driblet of rain.

None of america had ever seen aliases heard of it, and we didn’t cognize what to telephone it. I judge Bruce called it “thunder snow,” and it stuck. Thus his naming streak continued.

Bruce was, and is, the existent woody successful search. His bequest isn’t conscionable that he coined a term. He consistently backed it up by pushing the section forward, educating others, and engaging pinch the group he loved. Like galore early pros successful the field, he helped create hunt creation practices that stay foundational today. He was known arsenic a apical master done his writings, interviews, books, and hundreds of manufacture events. For galore who retrieve the beginning, and moreover travel him today, he is the GOAT.

Bruce took an intelligence position of search, and I don’t deliberation he ever saw it arsenic a job. It was breathtaking and new, and really often do you get to invent an wholly caller thing? Not often. He recognized that AI is specified a infinitesimal now and approached it pinch the aforesaid excitement and insight. Many of you successful this manufacture whitethorn only now beryllium learning that he pioneered things you do each day. They look for illustration communal consciousness now, but they weren’t. There was a batch of statement conscionable to found the basics.

He wasn’t conscionable passionate astir search. He was besides passionate and generous toward the people successful search. If you were into it, you were portion of his tribe. That was surely existent for the galore thousands of group successful the manufacture he interacted with, myself included.

We could ever get heavy successful the weeds connected the waste and acquisition while besides taking a wide, visionary position of wherever things were and are still going. He was an technologist pinch an MBA, and it showed successful his leadership, expertise, and authority connected the subject. He was that uncommon talent who understood the waste and acquisition from apical to bottom, and backmost to the apical again.

And he was genuinely a bully guy, pinch galore friends astir the world. In our past conversations, I sensed he was contented pinch his life and accomplishments, and felt blessed by the travel life had taken him on. He had thing to prove.

In his podcast interview, he was arsenic insightful arsenic ever and delivered immoderate of the astir sensible thoughts I’ve encountered connected wherever hunt is going successful the caller world of LLMs. He was arsenic innovative now arsenic he was erstwhile everything first started 30 years ago. Since overmuch of hunt is astir linguistics, I’ve been particularly willing successful really we deliberation about, and what we call, this “new” thing. I work together pinch what Bruce had to opportunity successful the chat below. The speech crystallized my research, and the manufacture seems to person mostly followed suit complete the past year.

If you’re 1 of the galore thousands of group who talked shop pinch Bruce complete the years, publication on. You’ll apt relive immoderate of your ain moments pinch him.

As I went done the podcast transcript, I realized we had hours of further speech recorded beyond search, talking astir cars and different things. At the extremity of our first conversation, he said goodbye pinch awesome emotion and care. That’s conscionable who he was. Those words speak to maine otherwise now, and they ever will.

Rest successful peace, Bruce. You are already greatly missed.

Rob Garner
Talk astir really you sewage started backmost successful the 90s, and past talk a small spot astir the naming portion of of search.

Bruce Clay
Okay, I’m going to resistance america kicking and screaming backmost to 1996. I decided I wanted to move firm jobs to beryllium a advisor looking for thing to do. My inheritance is mathematics programming. I did mainframe worldly successful Silicon Valley. I did PC stuff. I did networking. I did a batch of optimization activity successful that environment. That was really my superior domiciled was optimizing mainframes and PCs and applications and programme products. In January ‘96, Al Gore really benignant of pushed the Internet. And I listened to him and I said, ‘oh, look astatine that. It has marketing. I person an mba. It has method work’. That’s benignant of for illustration my programming. And it conscionable showed up and cipher was really capable to fig retired really to make money connected it.

I decided I was going to get successful and commencement doing it. And of people successful bid to do it, you had to play pinch the hunt engines. So I started targeting hunt engines. What are they looking for, really do I update web pages? And automagically, they started ranking. Then group started calling maine and they were giving maine money. Here I americium reasoning I’m going to beryllium a 1 personification consultant. And it conscionable took off. I mean it went vertical. And I now person offices successful Japan, I person them successful Australia, I person them successful passim Asia, passim Europe, India. I’ve been to the Taj Mahal twice. I mean, you know, those kinds of things. And I would ne'er person stake that it would person gone that ballistic.

Rob Garner
It’s incredible. Back successful those days location were “tens” of group doing it virtually early on. You were doing benignant of the agency broadside of things, doing this for companies and businesses – the “legitimate side.” There were evidently a batch of different folks that were doing achromatic chapeau techniques. But you were really 1 of the first to group up an existent work for businesses to thief them rank for successful galore immoderate cases their ain marque name, and successful different cases generic terms.

Bruce Clay
Yeah. Now this was besides 3 years earlier Google. So you know, location it was a chaotic westbound erstwhile it comes to hunt engines. Everybody thought they could make a luck and they were increasing overnight. There were 20-some awesome hunt engines.

It turns retired they were each taking information from each other. The very first SEO conference, each of the leaders successful SEO – and nary of america knew really large this was going to get – but each of the leaders successful SEO showed up for the convention and were sitting astatine 1 information array successful the bar. You know, had location been a earthy disaster, we would person wiped retired the industry.

Rob Garner
Which convention was that SES successful Dallas?

Bruce Clay
I don’t retrieve wherever it was. I conscionable retrieve I’m looking astatine each these group whose names I person known because we each station and pass and were each sharing, Danny Sullivan was the 1 that pulled it together for Search Engine Strategies. So that was beautiful overmuch the very first. The biggest publication I made – I was very vocal astir it being the early of the Internet from the position of businesses. I’ve been fixed in installments for coining the word “SEO,” and you know, the truth is cipher knows who was the first to ever opportunity anything, but I do cognize location were only a fistful of us.

And truthful we decided it was SEO and that was really the first acronym. It did stick. We each utilized it, we propagated it successful our writings and everything other and it stuck and backmost a small bit.

Rob Garner
Back successful the time erstwhile Danny was penning for MCP, it was really the first journalistic news tract successful this industry, which later became MCP erstwhile he sold MCP. And you were besides referring to the Search Engine Strategies conference, which was the first awesome nationalist business convention connected the topic. He’s evidently moving for Google now, truthful he hasn’t been retired location the measurement he was really for the first 20 years of search, since he’s been the Google liaison.

The folks that are moving successful the manufacture now successful the past 5 to 10 years, aliases possibly moreover 12 years, they mightiness not person seen what a unit he was successful utilizing that term. And it wasn’t a slam dunk necessarily, was it? I mean location were different position that were being considered. Like iProspect and “search motor positioning”. And really do you deliberation it came complete to “SEO” versus “optimization” versus “positioning”?

Bruce Clay
Well, location was “positioning” and location was besides “ranking”. And truthful betwixt the 3 of them, I personally deliberation that “optimization” astir apt won because it was much of a technical. I’m capable to get paid a batch of money for doing it.

You know, it’s for illustration good tuning a title engine. Your regular car aliases a racer. And I deliberation that optimization had much flair for group to opportunity ‘hey, I want to do this for a living’. They hooked their wagon to that word and it just, arsenic I said it went vertical – and I mean really vertical. I mean this was not a slow maturation word genuinely for illustration wrong a 3 period period. That is precisely what it was worldwide. I mean it was amazing.

Rob Garner
It’s portion of the halfway integer marketing. It’s evidently a halfway portion of immoderate type of earned media trading maneuver arsenic well. So that “optimization” portion has decidedly cemented itself successful the lexicon for judge successful each of marketing.

So the 1 point I’ve been penning astir lately is these caller position that are projected aliases you know, AIO, GEO, AEO, but they each person the connection “optimization”. The caller conception was coming up pinch the azygous connection “optimization”.

How do you consciousness astir the exertion of that connection to what’s perceived arsenic “new” things pinch AI and possibly conscionable talk a small spot astir what you deliberation astir those position and really you deliberation optimization fits into that, this caller area aliases caller era we’re moving into.

Bruce Clay
You and I person discussed this a number of times. I mean, if you recall, I made a connection that hunt motor optimization is successful nary measurement tied to organic. It doesn’t opportunity “I’m only organic”, it conscionable happened to beryllium astatine the beginning. That’s each location was. But it doesn’t opportunity “I’m only doing integrated results”.

We judge it’s thing the hunt motor spits retired that causes business that tin make traffic. That is the optimization target doesn’t person to beryllium organic.

Rob Garner
Anywhere there’s a query and answer, and successful a measurement it tin beryllium affected.

Bruce Clay
Yeah. And that’s it rather frankly, what’s called AIO aliases AI arsenic it shows up successful search, it’s hunt motor optimization because it is output from a hunt motor that causes traffic. Now, my circumstantial return connected it is if you look astatine what is aliases what’s considered SEO, portion of that is backlinks aliases linking. Links are a large portion of SEO. There wasn’t an [acronym] to accommodate “link motor optimization”. I mean, location was ne'er a request to invent caller terms. I judge that the mostly of the position that are being created are conscionable inventions to. It’s a trading term. It has thing to do pinch the practicality of doing optimization. They conscionable invented a trading word and said, I do this now, cipher other does this, you amended prosecute me.

And I deliberation that each 1 of them is thing much than an hold of SEO. Just for illustration links are aliases connected page aliases what person you. Google has moreover explicitly stated that SEO is the instauration of immoderate AI results. That if you are not recovered organically, you know, if you’re not successful the apical 10, springiness it up. Right now there’s going to beryllium a disturbance successful the force, and possibly we’ll get to that a small spot later. But moreover pinch AI mode, you’re going to find that if you don’t rank organically, you don’t rank successful AI.

Rob Garner
Understood. And you know, it seems for illustration anybody that uses AI, they spot the citations coming up. It’s almost looking for illustration AI is becoming for hunt and navigation and frankly, [it is only a] sliver of the existent wide intent and use of AI. It’s 1 conception of it. But we tin spot those citations correct earlier our eyes. And it does consciousness a batch for illustration SEO – the basics, and to what you were saying, I’m proceeding a batch of what sounds for illustration repackaged SEO strategies for this “new thing”. You said thing successful our past speech that really cemented it for maine – that this is SEO. This is serving a hunt function.

You said that GEO and AIO are subsets of SEO.

Bruce Clay
Yeah, truthful they’re called extensions. Like linking is an extension.

Rob Garner
I’ve travel astir to that arsenic well. We’re really talking really astir the hunt usability and navigation. That does look to beryllium the case.

Bruce Clay
If you talk to anybody astir “how do I get into AI”, they’re going to commencement listing retired SEO things you person to do universally. They database out, well, you sewage to person this and you sewage to person that and you sewage to do this and you know, you request mentions and you request linking and you request schema. If the only measurement to get into AI is to do SEO, AI is not separate, it can’t be. And anybody that sells you that you don’t request SEO anymore, you only request AI. Watch them because each they’re going to do is SEO.

Or they don’t cognize what they’re doing, 1 aliases the other. We’ve been capable to get group classed successful AI. There’s a method to it and if you travel the method, you rank successful AI. That’s a beautiful straightforward benignant of a thing. It’s for illustration 5 levels deeper than thing we’ve ever done before. I mean, very analyzable SEO. Yes, but still SEO.

Rob Garner
Do you consciousness for illustration correct now pinch the authorities of wherever AI is, does it consciousness for illustration hunt successful the precocious 90s? Does it look for illustration AI is acting for illustration a hunt motor successful position of it’s trying to crawl. The existent clip web doesn’t person that afloat entree now – it’s utilizing pages for citations. And do you deliberation that we’ll commencement to spot the [spam] fight, aliases [LLMs putting] up the guidance to support the integrity of the results aliases result. What are your thoughts connected that?

Bruce Clay
I perfectly judge it. It is bet if you return what AI looks astatine and effort to disagreement it into a mates of categories. AI is relying connected hunt engines that have, you know, 28 years of spam fighting. I mean, AI doesn’t person that. Right, right. So it’s very limited upon the hunt engines to select retired the garbage and spot eat worldly each is built into the hunt engine.

AI depends upon that level of trust. What we’re going to spot is AI is going to beryllium predominantly looking astatine what the hunt engines person gotten correct arsenic a fundamental. This is your passkey to get in. Now erstwhile you’re in, there’s different things that it tries to do and immoderate of those it [obviously] looks astatine the content. And it is gameable a small spot astatine the contented level.

If the full world said the cure for crab is “blueberries”, AI would deliberation the cure for crab is blueberries. We person already had cases wherever group spam it arsenic who is the champion SEO. They see their list, and their sanction is successful it arsenic well. And if you do that capable times connected capable sites, AI believes you. Tthat portion still hasn’t been solved. But yes, AI is gameable still [is] the point that is yet going to beryllium the case. And I’ve been moving connected this now for almost 3 months.

If you spell to AI mode and you spell down to a conception and the measurement to get location is you spell to Google.com AI if you spell to that, you get put correct connected the beforehand page of AI mode, past you could put successful a query, you get a group of results and connected the correct manus broadside you get immoderate reference sites. The group of results are generic for the taxable of your query, but there’s H2s that are subsections that are much focused, and it doesn’t create 1 reply that is thing but your topic. It gives you benignant of an overview of your topic, instantly followed by a heavy dive successful the silos wrong that topic. If you return each of the silos astatine the bottom, there’s a small nexus type thing. People deliberation that’s for a testimonial aliases a reference, but it isn’t.

You click it. The full conception is highlighted and the sites connected the correct now alteration to beryllium circumstantial to the contented of conscionable that section. So successful different words, you tin drill down. You don’t person to spell do different query. You tin conscionable click and drill down and you get caller sites and caller contented for that topic. Go down to the adjacent H2 level, do it again, you get different sites. What we’re really recognizing and what I deliberation is going to hap is I deliberation AI mode is conscionable going to switch AIO. You see, AI mode doesn’t person immoderate ads successful it. But if you switch AIO pinch AI mode, past automagically you person a drill down capability, but you don’t person to interest astir the ads because it’s portion of the existent Google page.

You conscionable highlighted and gave a drill down capacity to AI. I deliberation being capable to understand really to optimize for those subsections, the clusters aliases sub silos wrong a page, I deliberation you person to do that. It does 10 times summation the value of siloing for your full site. But you person to besides silo now wrong the silos and wrong the page. I person to beryllium capable to return a taxable and logically create my contented to travel a akin model. A subsection standalone answers the question. Another subsection connected the adjacent important portion and I person to build a website that useful that measurement successful bid for maine to accommodate AI. Now that’s a level that isn’t being done by SEO anywhere. And you tin look astatine the 100 cardinal websites retired connected the web and virtually nary do.

Rob Garner
One of the mistakes that seems to beryllium repeated from the past to the caller – whether it’s AI devices aliases different things – is that they’re keyword-led. What you’re speaking to is that we’re moving to context-led – and moreover entities wrong discourse – of a fixed keyword. You know,with a keyword being a node. But it’s really astir the discourse because arsenic we know, there’s aggregate intentions for many, galore different keywords. Even going down to 3-, 4-, 5-, 6-word strings, location tin beryllium aggregate intentions. Could you talk a small spot much astir entities and the value of entities wrong discourse of what you’re speaking about?

Bruce Clay
Yes. And, and by the way, entities is mostly the existent communal word “keywords”. As you pointed out, keywords are so, you know, 1995. So don’t get maine wrong, keywords thief build our industry. But it’s time, you know, to molt and move on. If you understand the conception of entities and fan-outs and each those kinds of things, you commencement to understand really contented has to beryllium system and really references and transverse links person to beryllium very circumstantial and really you’re evidently sewage to reply a question. If you cannot reply the question, that’s wherever you commencement failing. I mean, the full intent of AI is to answer a question.

Rob Garner
Yes.

Bruce Clay
Think [like] the target is the Star Trek machine wherever nary matter what you inquire [as] a question, you ever get the answer. That’s the emblem successful the crushed and it’s rather a ways out, but that’s the emblem successful the ground. And I judge that a mobility centric, precocious usability, sub siloed, system pinch a circumstantial expertise to reply and mention wrong a peculiar page and to instrumentality retired to subpages is the architecture of the future. Unfortunately, it intends that 100 cardinal websites are retired of date.

Rob Garner
Understood. It’s content, correct – we’ve benignant of gone backmost to the early 2000s, which moreover for maine having done this arsenic long, it seems for illustration that. Around those times location was much hunt request than location was content. And it almost consciousness a batch of contented plays person stopped fighting this conflict pinch engines. Do you consciousness there’s a caller frontier for contented now and contented improvement and production?

Bruce Clay
For years SEO benignant of thought of contented arsenic a stepchild, and now it’s a peer. The attack is that content, particularly pinch the study that I conscionable described – and the expertise to designer astir that solution – that has dragged SEO up 5 levels. And contented arsenic a stepchild really has grown to beryllium very, almost peerish. If your SEO squad and your contented squad are not talking, are not knowing the aforesaid goal, they’re going to constitute for illustration they did 20 years agone and you’re going to fail. You person to, you person to person personification do things that make sense. I person clients hiring maine to spell to their tract and train their full contented team. And I’m not a contented guy. I mean, I wrote a book connected contented and I speak astatine contented conferences.

But you know, I didn’t turn up being a writer for illustration Danny Sullivan did, right. I grew up learning really to write. But being an SEO, being a programmer and engineer, I deliberation correct now, if you do not clasp really to do contented wrong a page, you’re going to support generating garbage.

Rob Garner
Agreed. Maybe 1 of the champion AI devices is the English language, and having a bid complete that could beryllium 1 of the [tactial] sources. But it is interesting, we’ve had this creation for decades now betwixt contented and SEO. You mentioned you [recently said at] Content Marketing World, I deliberation successful the past month. They’ve been astir since astir 2008. And I was portion of that movement, contented for SEO maturation successful the precocious 2000s, and they took that and ran pinch it. But do you consciousness for illustration those 2 are separated successful the measurement they’re looking astatine things aliases do you consciousness for illustration the mean attendee, for example, astatine Content Marketing World is overmuch much SEO savvy now than they mightiness person been 15 years ago.

Bruce Clay
Well, they can’t thief but beryllium much savvy. But the existent point is group don’t transverse pollinate betwixt contented and SEO. Even the conferences. They had 3,000 group astatine Content Marketing World. I did a presentation. Nobody had attended an SEO conference. They didn’t know, you know, what moreover a convention was for SEO. They astir apt didn’t moreover cognize location was a convention for SEO. Right aft that, [we] were sponsoring the Brighton SEO convention the adjacent week, and the group astatine Brighton didn’t cognize really that overmuch astir content. There’s nary way connected contented really anymore. It’s SEO aliases it’s PPC. And convey you very much. I deliberation that arsenic an industry, genuinely the teams are disjoint. They don’t pollinate backmost and distant enough.

I mentioned that we request to create a page and we request sections successful the page and each conception has to beryllium an expert, and each master is simply a different section. And we can’t conscionable build 1 page of each the keywords. We tin nary longer return a keyword and conscionable dispersed it passim a page. That’s the measurement astir SEO is done – moreover still being done. That’s a mistake. And your contented writers don’t cognize that. If you don’t drawback them by the backmost of the cervix and say, “sit successful this chair and understand what we’re going to show you person to constitute arsenic an master successful H2 sections. Each section, presume it’s a standalone page, constitute it to beryllium an expert, past do the adjacent H2.”

If it’s each successful the aforesaid theme, and if you can’t get your contented squad to understand really to constitute that way, you’re not going to rank successful AI very well. When group click connected AI mode and do the drill down, if your tract doesn’t do the drill down, you’re out. You person to, you person to.

Rob Garner
[There] must beryllium an outline and a structure.

Bruce Clay
You conscionable must understand the level is nary longer to the page. The level is to this conception of the page. That’s the measurement it is.

Rob Garner
What proposal would you springiness to some SEOs and contented marketers for AI generated content? Because we cognize this is possibly the astir celebrated usage lawsuit for AI correct now. But what proposal would you springiness to them for producing higher value content? And what are the imperatives for producing precocious value contented utilizing AI?

Bruce Clay
Okay, truthful deliberation of it for illustration a computer. And successful the machine location are instructions. Let’s suppose you needed to adhd a caller instruction to the computer. The engineers would commencement doing the method activity pinch circuit boards.

And the package group would travel from this direction. Say, erstwhile you get that error, we’re going to retrieve and location they’re going to meet. You’re going to tally into a business wherever that is the problem. You’re not going to beryllium capable to lick each of the AI problems. Remember, AI is simply a tool, not a solution. And what we’re moving into correct now are group are assuming that method AI output is acceptable successful general. Now, I deliberation AHREFS did a survey, 100,000 sites and queries, and recovered that 40% aliases truthful of the apical 10 had AI connected the page erstwhile you tally it done a test. My acquisition is we person 5 trial devices that we subscribe to because that’s what I do. And 1 will opportunity 1% AI, and different 1 will opportunity 98% AI.

The trial devices can’t moreover agree. So the hunt motor isn’t going to drawback you if it’s measurement retired of bounds. Okay, they whitethorn opportunity past among equals, but they’re assuming that the contented is reasonable and they’re ranking immoderate of these Sites. But our approach, arsenic you know, I person a merchandise called Pre-Writer. We do each the research, and I mean gobbledygooks of research, things that group hadn’t moreover thought of, and springiness it to a writer to finish. Now, erstwhile it goes live, it’s human. That’s a different process than, “I’m going to tally it done AI. If it sounds okay, I’ll people it.” People that do that are begging to beryllium past among equals. And that’s what [it has] become.

Rob Garner
Do you deliberation yet AI contented could go viewed for illustration copy content, aliases location [are] filters if it is identified, aliases perceived to beryllium [AI content].

Bruce Clay
Well, I would dream that for illustration an advertisement, you’d person to tag it somehow. But that’s going to beryllium atrocious hard. I deliberation that’s going to beryllium hard. It’s the detection. It’s for illustration spam. Detecting spam has taken 25 years, and now a batch of it is caught. Detecting AI is going to return years. I deliberation that we’re going to person a problem. The existent belief is that the hunt engines are going to effort to observe whether you are a superset of the different results, whether you are offering a imaginative solution, a different approach, whether you’re explaining it amended than everybody else, and whether your website successful and of itself is much useful. ‘Usefulness’ hasn’t been a portion of SEO. SEO didn’t, you know, stomp their feet and opportunity “you sewage to person jump links and a privateness statement”.

You know, they didn’t care. Because that wasn’t portion of the mainstream SEO – correct now it is. And we’re going to find that. I judge we’re going to find that there’s still going to beryllium group retired location that tally done AI and past people it. That is simply a large mistake. We intentionally, successful our devices don’t apply, peculiarly style, voice, compliance and each the things that a writer would do. We intentionally debar that because we want to unit the writer to person a role. But if I tin return their four-and-a-half, five-hour task down to two, that’s the win. So to reply your question, the AI domiciled has to beryllium what it’s bully at. And what it’s bully astatine is research.

It has a position of the index, if you will, and because it tin position the index, its domiciled is genuinely a investigation assistant, not a writer replacement. It’s not an artist, it doesn’t person the finesse, and it surely doesn’t understand your business arsenic good arsenic you do. This is simply a generic advisor coming successful the door. I mean, they locomotion correct successful and say, “here, I tin constitute better, people it”. I mean, what. Nobody would prosecute that and still needs…

Rob Garner
The quality touch.

Bruce Clay
The quality touch. Yeah. I can’t stress capable that I judge that writers are artists. Let’s judge it. But it has sewage to beryllium integrated into the SEO AI world and everybody has to understand the goals and understand the limits. If you opportunity to a writer, “no, I don’t want the keyword passim the page”. I want a conception that emphasizes each of the 3 keywords of the page, and let’s beryllium experts successful each of them and not put the keyword passim the page. They’re conscionable going to look astatine you and say, who are you and where’d you travel from? I mean, they’re not going to understand. You’ve sewage to. I deliberation that going backmost to our original point, contented is simply a very ample portion of SEO today.

And SEO coming has really grown very overmuch into a, you know, you person to beryllium capable to look astatine it, and spot it, and understand it, and building it, and instrumentality it pinch your content, aliases you’re conscionable penning pages for illustration you did 10 years ago, and they’ll each beryllium ignored. I mean, there’s a maturation maturity that has to beryllium applied here, and I deliberation that’s wherever the conflict is understood.

Rob Garner
Last mobility here. In the precocious 90s, early 2000s, you were besides good known for your instrumentality set. In summation to ranking number 1 for SEO and hunt motor optimization for what, 10, 12, 15 years? You mentioned Pre-Writer. Can you talk astir immoderate of your different devices that you person now and what the usability is and really group tin usage them?

Bruce Clay
Right. In the beginning, I wrote devices because location were nary tools. Let’s look it – location were none. I wrote 1 of the first page analyzers. I’ll spell arsenic acold arsenic to opportunity backmost past I called it the “keyword density analyzer”. I retrieve density connected a page had to not beryllium excessively precocious aliases not beryllium excessively low, had to beryllium wrong logic for what the hunt engines were rewarding. And I person a patent moreover connected that benignant of technology. That peculiar tool, though, was because location wasn’t one. And it turns retired that each of the devices that are retired there, Semrush and Ahrefs and, you know, Surfer and each the rest, those are very beardown devices that for 1 logic aliases another, did not Replicate my tools. I person page analyzers that they don’t have. I tin look astatine different things that they can’t see. So my tools.

And by the way, you tin get to them done seotools.com – a awesome domain name. They’re inexpensive and they’re conscionable powerfulness tools. They’re not designed for the masses. I’ve had group motion up and past inquire for a refund because they don’t understand them. Then six months later travel backmost and opportunity “I spot now why you do that”.

Rob Garner
Yes, we’re fine-tuning here.

Bruce Clay
Yes. And truthful that’s what I’ve been happy to do. We person our tools. The devices are not designed to displace immoderate of the large instrumentality sets. They’re designed to beryllium utilized pinch them arsenic an extension. I mean I do things they don’t do.

Do I do a mates of things they do? Do I person immoderate bully tools? Yes. And they do each sorts of really benignant of study that we attraction about. Everybody knows they’ve been losing traffic, but I’m not judge everybody knows really overmuch postulation they’ve mislaid aliases they guess. We person a bully marque caller tool. We’re going to beryllium putting it up, and what it does is it really goes the hunt console and gives you a chart of the past mates years aliases immoderate we person wherever you tin spot the postulation nonaccomplishment and you tin really say, oh,’ I fell disconnected a cliff’ aliases ‘I’ve conscionable been a gradual demise’. Or you know, that benignant of stuff. I don’t spot those devices retired there.

Rob Garner
Yeah, it seems for illustration they should beryllium baked into analytics and different things but it amazes maine – each this time, and each the needs and each these pent-up demands – and sometimes things don’t get built. But you are location to lick the issue, truthful fantastic. Bruce, convey you truthful overmuch for talking today. Great to speak pinch you arsenic always.

Bruce Clay
Thank you very much. I’m gladsome you had me. Love talking to you.