Back successful 2015, talent head Ian Schwartzman emailed Spotify pinch a request—his client, rapper Joe Budden, wanted to adhd episodes of his recently launched podcast to his creator floor plan connected the euphony streaming platform. “And the consequence I sewage was comical,” Schwartzman tells Forbes, “It was, ‘What is podcasting?’”
A decade later, podcasting has go a cornerstone of media, and Spotify is competing pinch companies specified arsenic Amazon, iHeartMedia, SiriusXM and now moreover Netflix successful a marketplace that has grown from little than $100 cardinal successful yearly gross a decade agone into a $9 cardinal industry. Budden and Schwartzman person spent the intervening years doing everything they tin to gain a portion of that ever-growing pie, bootstrapping The Joe Budden Network to an estimated $20 cardinal successful net complete the past 12 months, capable to beryllium classed among the highest-paid podcasters successful the world for 2026. And dissimilar astir each different performer connected that list, they did it without a wide distribution and advertisement income woody from a awesome media company, aliases a backstage equity investor.
“Honestly, I don’t for illustration being told what to do,” the 45-year-old Budden says of his desire for independence. “One of the worst things to maine is having to trust connected personification other to springiness maine what I'm either owed, what I deserve, aliases what I americium consenting to spell retired and activity for.”
In Budden’s mind, that’s a instruction learned the difficult way. Born and raised successful Spanish Harlem, he signed his first signaling statement pinch Def Jam astatine 21, starring to a self-titled medium successful 2003 and a Grammy information for his single, “Pump It Up.” But clashes pinch the explanation started almost instantly complete some imaginative power and financial adjacent play. Budden soon built a estimation arsenic personification who wasn’t acrophobic to aerial retired his grievances into immoderate disposable microphone, from a little stint arsenic a impermanent big of New York City’s Hot 97 power position to the VH1 reality show Love & Hip-Hop and regular YouTube vlogs, which he started appearing connected arsenic early arsenic 2007.
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Those platforms gave Budden a spot to archive his profession arsenic he bounced astir smaller indie labels and experimented pinch digital-only releases, earlier releasing his last album, Rage & The Machine, wholly independently successful 2016—a determination which he says led to the astir successful play of his euphony career. Around the aforesaid time, it became evident to Budden that podcasting was the optimal shape for his no-holds-barred storytelling, and his show (initially titled I’ll Name This Podcast Later) quickly became an basal destination for speech astir the hip-hop world.
“He was 1 of the first rappers who was pulling backmost the curtain,” says Charlamagne Tha God, cohost of The Breakfast Club and founder of The Black Effect Podcast Network. “It doesn't wounded that he's a polarizing person. I ever opportunity polarizing is the champion measurement to be, because you person a bunch of group that emotion you talking astir you, and you person bunch of group that dislike you talking astir you—but the reality is the algorithm doesn’t cognize the difference.”
Despite Spotify’s first cluelessness astir the format, the institution signed Budden to its first exclusive podcasting woody successful 2018. By then, the Stockholm-based level had intelligibly seen the imaginable of the medium, pursuing Budden’s woody pinch a billion-dollar shopping spree complete the adjacent fewer years that included acquisitions of podcast companies Gimlet Media and Anchor FM (for a mixed $340 million), networks for illustration Bill Simmons’ The Ringer (for $200 million) and a big of exclusive licensing deals pinch Joe Rogan, Alex Cooper, the Obamas, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, and Kim Kardashian.
At the time, Budden’s $2 cardinal yearly guarantee felt for illustration a windfall, but Schwartzman says the Spotify woody didn’t trim them into immoderate advertisement gross sharing, truthful erstwhile the show exploded and topped the wide Spotify floor plan during the two-year term, location was nary opportunity for an upside. Then connection sewage backmost to Budden that Spotify, which had precocious gone public, was utilizing his show arsenic a trading constituent for investors, christening a lucrative caller class of “Original Audio,” and yet immoderate attempts to discuss for banal were a non-starter. Another time, Budden says a capacity prize was not paid retired because Spotify told him its systems were hacked and each the information was erased, specifically for his category. Budden was sensing chicanery not dissimilar from his acquisition pinch euphony labels, though he has different sanction for it—and it involves 2 four-letter words. (Spotify did not respond to a petition for remark connected the incident.)
So erstwhile Spotify offered Budden $20 cardinal for a two-year renewal successful 2020, he didn’t moreover fuss to negotiate. His mindset was clear: “Get maine retired of here.”
The clip pinch Spotify did, however, service arsenic an acquisition for Budden and Schwartzman astir really the podcasting business worked, empowering them to motorboat the show independently connected Patreon, a level that takes a level 10% interest for handling administrative tasks but makes nary editorial aliases ownership claims. It didn’t wounded that, arsenic portion of their agreement, Patreon besides gave them banal successful the company.
That state came pinch its ain group of problems, including the departure of longtime co-hosts Rory Farrell and Jamil Clay complete their ain gross sharing disputes, but it unlocked the show’s existent earning powerfulness by creating aggregate gross streams. In summation to the 2 ad-supported episodes released free to each platforms each week, further episodes and behind-the-scenes contented are besides disposable exclusively to Patreon subscribers, who salary $5, $10, $25 aliases moreover $50 per period to unlock various rank perks. Schwartzman claims The Joe Budden Podcast Network—which now includes 3 shows, pinch 2 much debuting successful August—has much than 70,000 subscribers connected Patreon and generates much than $1 cardinal per month, making him the biggest creator connected its platform.
Some podcast dealmakers show Forbes that Budden’s direct-to-consumer way is his champion action because his contented is little “brand-safe” to advertisers, fixed his penchant for heated speech and colorful language. When asked astir this, Budden laughs and shakes his head. “Brand-safe is coded language,” he says. But Schwartzman doesn’t disregard the stigma.
“I've been successful rooms wherever the chat astir advertizing successful a black-hosted abstraction is problematic for definite brands. And if Joe was conscionable a achromatic feline wearing a suit, we would beryllium capable to easy get him 10 times these ads,” says Schwartzman. “It’s a problem, because while you deliberation you're being marque safe—racist but marque safe—you're besides leaving retired the astir influential organization successful the world that would really make your marque rustle up.”
That’s portion of the logic why Budden and Schwartzman hired web developers and group retired make their ain societal media platform, first called “joebuddencommunity.com,” wherever fans could stitchery online without gatekeepers aliases algorithms controlling the conversations. Its interface looks for illustration a batch for illustration X.com but functions much for illustration a souped-up Discord, pinch unrecorded streams, chat rooms, and the full backmost catalog of 1,500 podcast episodes. In precocious July, they renamed the tract “acommunity.com,” assured that different creators will yet want to utilize their toolkit.
The brace person moreover recovered a measurement to monetize “clipping,” the believe of third-party users posting segments of podcasts online arsenic a shape of promotion. While the accepted strategy operates successful the shadows, pinch IP holders paying clip creators $1 aliases $2 for each 1000 views they get, A Community flips the strategy and offers clip creators a afloat licence to excerpt immoderate they want pinch afloat monetization capabilities for a $500-per-month fee.
That is the Budden ethos successful miniature—the thought that unlimited occurrence is wrong reach, if only you propulsion disconnected the shackles of the established system. On the podcast side, he and Schwartzman dream their transparency astir money will show different creators that the independent way is monetizable and scalable. Schwartzman believes the Budden marque could turn from $20 cardinal to $100 cardinal aliases much successful the coming years, without sacrificing precious control.
“Independence is important if you judge there's a apical of the upland that the firm world can't spot for you,” Schwartzman says. “We spot it.”
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