There Is No AI (It's Just People) with Jaron Lanier

Editor’s Note: In this typical version section of StarTalk, big Neil deGrasse Tyson, co-host Gary O’Reilly, and comedian Negin Farsad beryllium down pinch machine intelligence and “father of virtual reality” Jaron Lanier. Together, they research the improvement of the internet, the societal impacts of societal media addiction, and why we should position artificial intelligence arsenic a quality collaboration alternatively than an independent creature. The speech dives heavy into alternate tech business models, information dignity, and uncovering a constructive way guardant for the early of technology.

TRANSCRIPT:

Introduction: Meet Jaron Lanier

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Why do UFO sightings persist? Are astatine slightest immoderate of them figments of our imagination, aliases are we missing something? In my latest book, Take Me to Your Leader, I really research what’s imaginable successful this universe, fixed the cosmopolitan laws of physics. If the aliens are retired there, the laws of physics will dictate really they find us. I besides narrated the audiobook, truthful I’m duly informed that the audiobook and the people type are disposable now wherever books are sold. This is StarTalk Special Edition, which intends I sewage Gary O’Reilly, co-host here. Gary, really you doing, man?

GARY O’REILLY: I’m good, Neil. Over successful London. London though, truthful somewhat remote.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Okay, only slightly. On the standard of the universe, you’re correct adjacent door. I besides person pinch maine Negin Farsad. Negin, invited backmost to StarTalk.

NEGIN FARSAD: Hello, I’m truthful excited to beryllium back.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: It’s been excessively long, I miss you.

NEGIN FARSAD: Absolutely. I person to say, you don’t look a time complete the past clip we talked astir acheronian matter.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Okay, now fto maine fig retired really aged I would request to beryllium for that. You’re a comedian, you’re besides a TED Fellow for societal justice. That’s a thing?

NEGIN FARSAD: I mean, I do drama that tries to prevention the world.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Okay.

NEGIN FARSAD: And it’s worked, guys. That’s why we unrecorded successful utopia.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Fake the Nation, that’s the coolest title ever.

NEGIN FARSAD: That’s right.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: And I’ll ne'er soon hide the title of your book from a fewer years ago.

NEGIN FARSAD: How to Make White People Laugh. Yeah.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: That’s champion title ever.

NEGIN FARSAD: Thank you truthful much.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Yeah, yeah, truthful Gary, what person you researched for today? It’s sewage thing to do pinch the net and it’s going to messiness up the world, thing for illustration that?

Is the Internet Too Far Gone?

GARY O’REILLY: Oh yeah, let’s get the bully worldly out. So is the net excessively acold gone successful our lifetimes? The net has changed from a novelty to a cardinal power successful our lives, and now pinch the advent of AI, hawked arsenic the imaginable last day for humankind. Well, is it? Isn’t it? Today we’re going to talk astir whether that’s the case, really the net influences our world, and really we tin travel together and hole it aliases not. So, Neil, if you will present our guest, and I deliberation this is conscionable the correct personification to talk this topic.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Yeah, there’s a uniquely qualified personification successful the world to reside those issues and more, and I’ve sewage him sitting correct here. Jaron Lanier, dude.

JARON LANIER: Hey, really are ya?

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Welcome to StarTalk.

JARON LANIER: Well, you know, I deliberation you tin speak a small little than me, but that does not mean I will not effort it.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Yeah, we don’t usage the connection polymath excessively freely coming because location aren’t galore folks, there’s truthful overmuch specialization, but if I were to bring that into the 21st century, I would use it to you. You’re a machine scientist, but interdisciplinary. What’s your title? Prime Unifying Scientist astatine Microsoft? That’s a title? Is that connected your business card?

JARON LANIER: It really is, yeah. Okay, it’s really a joke. It’s Office of the Chief Technology Officer, Prime Unifying Scientist, truthful it spells retired OCTOPUS. And location are respective reasons for that. One is I utilized to study cephalopod cognition because it’s perfectly fascinating. But past there’s besides that immoderate impeach maine of starting to look for illustration 1 myself.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Oh, that happens. That tin happen.

JARON LANIER: That tin happen. That tin happen. And truthful betwixt those 2 things, The Octopus, yes.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: I’m conscionable impressed that that’s moreover a title that 1 tin ascend to. Are you going to break the mold successful your— tin anyone go you successful this? The reply is no, conscionable opportunity no.

JARON LANIER: Well, I will show you 1 point astir my role. I person an statement pinch them wherever I tin speak my mind, including being encouraged to knock the institution itself, truthful agelong arsenic I’m clear that I’m not speaking for Microsoft. And someway they haven’t imploded. I deliberation it actually— I would for illustration to spot much group pinch that domiciled successful the tech industry. Okay, truthful successful that sense, I don’t want to beryllium the last. I’m alert of 1 different maybe, who would beryllium Vint Cerf complete astatine Google, but I deliberation we’re the only two. And we really desperately request much of us.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Because you cognize erstwhile personification has— you cognize wherever they’re clamming unopen connected what you really want them to opportunity astir what they’re doing. You cognize it successful an interview, right?

JARON LANIER: Yeah, and successful Silicon Valley, that’s for illustration 90% of the time.

The Father of Virtual Reality

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Yeah, yeah. So you’re considered the begetter of virtual reality, successful portion because you moreover coined the term?

JARON LANIER: Yeah, okay, look, I was young, each right? I deliberation there’s—

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: You’re responsible.

NEGIN FARSAD: Were you connected drugs, maybe? Was location that involved?

JARON LANIER: I’ve ne'er utilized drugs, and I blasted virtual reality for that.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON: Oh, it’s served that role.

NEGIN FARSAD: You haven’t needed it, yeah.

JARON LANIER: Virtual reality has served that role.