The Atlantic fixed its business. Then AI came for media.

Running a awesome mag is hard. So is turning a money-losing mag into a profit center.

Nicholas Thompson has done both. The CEO of The Atlantic took the occupation successful 2021, erstwhile it was gushing reddish ink and slashing its workforce. Today it's profitable, boasts 1.6 cardinal subscribers, and gross that Thompson says is "much bigger" than $100 cardinal — the number it past reported successful 2023.

Thompson has the advantage of a very deep-pocketed proprietor — Laurene Powell Jobs, who is worthy a reported $15 billion — and a very talented editor. Under editor successful main Jeffrey Goldberg's watch, the Atlantic has go a accordant root of must-read pieces.

But Thompson is besides an atypical CEO: Prior to joining The Atlantic, he had a agelong profession arsenic an editor astatine outlets for illustration Wired and The New Yorker. On apical of that, he's a prolific creator who churns retired books, podcasts, and, astir recently, vertical videos for a very ample audience.

I talked to Thompson astir what it's for illustration to activity for 1 of the richest group successful the world, what AI has done for his mag and why it has yet to nutrient a breakthrough merchandise that normal group use, and why he's a business-side executive making contented that looks a batch for illustration the worldly the editorial unit astatine his publication mightiness make for themselves. You tin perceive to the full question and reply connected my Channels podcast; the pursuing is an edited excerpt of our conversation.

Peter Kafka: Like tons of publishers, The Atlantic has a billionaire owner: Laurene Powell Jobs, 1 of the wealthiest women successful the world. What does she want from you guys, and what is she giving you? Are you expected to beryllium a self-sustaining business? Do you inquire her for money to expand?

Nicholas Thompson: My instruction erstwhile I was hired was to make it profitable. When you person able owners, group don't understand that they attraction astir taking the business seriously.

You don't get to beryllium that wealthy, and you don't support that wealthiness by not caring astir really businesses are run.

I deliberation she cares a batch astir improving antiauthoritarian speech successful America and making judge that young group cognize a batch astir the astir important issues of the day.

An ideological project.

That's decidedly the incorrect word. I would opportunity much for illustration "idealistic."

She cares a ton astir American democracy, and she wants American populist to work. We want to effort to lend to that. If you don't person bully information, and group can't stock facts, and they can't stock stories, populist is simply a small spot harder.

Now that you're profitable, really often do you perceive from her aliases her people?

All the time. I talk to group successful her agency each day, and I talk to her reasonably frequently.

What are those conversations like? You say, "We're profitable. We astir apt will beryllium much profitable adjacent year. We're making really bully work." Then what happens?

You talk astir things like, "What's your video strategy? Where are the champion opportunities? What tin you do much of? OK, is this really working?" She's exceptionally perceptive and smart, and says, "Wait, hold a second, Nick. This point you're doing here, is that really really working? And is that the correct personification to beryllium doing it?" Questions for illustration that.

You were 1 of the first publishers to motion a woody pinch OpenAI. [Axel Springer, which publishes Business Insider, besides has an OpenAI deal.] There was a batch of hand-wringing astir that. It's been a mates of years. Has it worked the measurement you thought it would?

I for illustration them paying america than not paying us, right? And galore of the AI companies don't pay.

We group up a full bunch of boundaries successful the contract: How overmuch tin you summarize? Can you quote an author? Can you effort to get your exemplary to constitute for illustration an author? These things we attraction astir because we want it to beryllium harder for AI to switch what we do.

They've been awesome connected that. We wanted to person a spot astatine the array arsenic they talk done the domiciled of publicity successful their models. Absolutely. They've been astonishing partners astatine that.

The 1 point that we haven't seen, and I deliberation it's been a astonishment to some parties — 1 logic to do the woody was my anticipation that AI was going to switch accepted search, and that we wanted to make judge that location was tons of postulation directed backmost to us.

What you perceive passim the manufacture is that the bots are not sending overmuch postulation to publishers. The click-through rates are very bad.

That has amazed me.

Do you deliberation that's astir the measurement they've designed the product? If the links were bigger aliases much prominent, aliases location was immoderate inducement to click through, you'd spot the rates spell up?

You surely could alteration it successful ways that would make the rates spell up. But the halfway problem is that group spell to it for a different usage case. The Google usage lawsuit was group were trained to go, "I want to find this thing. Now I'll leave, and I'll click to a site." With Claude and ChatGPT, you're successful a speech pinch the bot.

Meanwhile, Google has been sending little and little referral traffic.

So I hear.

Can I opportunity thing absorbing astir that, though? The astir absorbing information constituent to maine is that the number of subscribers we get from Google postulation has gone up.

Mysterious, right? What's intelligibly happening is that Google is sending america less group who aren't going to subscribe. Are they doing that deliberately? Is it because of our contented mix? Is it because thing successful the measurement that we've tagged our stories? There are each kinds of different hypotheses.

What would you request to re-up pinch OpenAI astatine the extremity of your deal?

There conscionable has to beryllium a adjacent speech of value. What are you giving us, and what are we giving you? Is it fair? And if it's not, well, past we'll artifact you from the site, aliases we'll writer you, right? That's the deal.

There are tons of things they tin springiness you of value. In the aged deal, they gave america dollars, which are really nice. They [also] gave america credits, which weren't useful astatine the beginning, and past were incredibly useful, right? Codex credits are awesome.

You make your ain sponsored videos and station them connected platforms for illustration LinkedIn, wherever you person 1.6 cardinal followers. You're the CEO of The Atlantic. They are not editorial products. Atlantic editor successful main Jeffrey Goldberg has thing to do pinch them. Have you guys had a talk astir that?

The worldly the CEO makes is labeled, and it says, "This has not travel from The Atlantic's editorial arm."

We make a batch of money connected the worldly I do, and Jeff likes erstwhile we make money, because you cognize what we do pinch the money we make? We prosecute much reporters.

We support a statement betwixt what I do and the editorial side. I'm a small spot different from different CEOs successful that I didn't travel successful by being the CEO of a smaller publication aliases being the patient location else. I came successful because I was an editor who had been a very business-oriented editor from the clip I'd been astatine The New Yorker.

The content's good.

If the contented is bad, past there's a problem, right?

But I deliberation because the contented is good, you could say, this, why isn't this from Jeffrey Goldberg's team? Why are these abstracted things?

It's tension-free. I deliberation what makes it tension-free is because they're good, and they make money. And because neither broadside knows what the other's doing … I conscionable interviewed [Recursive CEO] Richard Socher. The editorial squad astatine The Atlantic mightiness beryllium preparing a deed portion connected Richard Socher. It mightiness beryllium preparing a puff profile. They person nary thought that I conscionable interviewed him.

So it's wholly independent.